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Post by SPRSTK on Aug 19, 2010 10:47:58 GMT -9
Well, the week-end is over and I have had some time to stew over the diaper issue. John Childs (Blown Pro-Mod) kicked the rods out of his motor and oiled the track from the 1/8 mile mark to the second turn-out, took the timing blocks out and came too damn close to Toni Prockish's car in the other lane. Looks like his diaper didn't catch anything or that he doesn't have one on the car! And if it didn't catch anything, what is the use of having it on the car? It took along time for Earl and ARP crew to clean that mess up. So, us 9.99 and quicker cars have to have one? How about making the rule for 8.49 and quicker cars? Those cars are all going to be fabricated chassis type cars not stock factory chassis cars.
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Post by akwhtbst on Aug 19, 2010 11:22:47 GMT -9
So this is just a track requirment?
That's just another thing to make fit around factory crossmembers and something else to spend money on. Do these have a date of certification on them so they will need to be replaced every few years? Maybe I don't want to go 9's.
Tim
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Post by dwl5x18 on Aug 19, 2010 12:44:50 GMT -9
Mike, John does have a diaper and a panel under the motor. He didn't kick the rods out.. He forgot to drain the puke tanks, they got to full and sprayed every where... Still was one HELL of a mess. I am not sure about the 9.99 thing as well. They don't have to be certified or replaced every two years, from what I understand. Yeah how easy is to put one on with a factory crossmember? ..... Not fun to change the oil. Plus engine heat.
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Post by ProStreetNova on Aug 19, 2010 17:59:32 GMT -9
The containing of Motor Heat, I'm sure will cost more motor damage to more racers. ADB should like that, more business for them.
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kcarazy
In Staging Lanes
Posts: 102
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Post by kcarazy on Aug 19, 2010 18:43:34 GMT -9
I guess thats another reason(maybenotthebest) to just run in the 10's and just when I get it together to maybe dip into the 9's my car is pretty tight in the crossmember oilpan area so I couldn't easily fit a diaper under the front area of the oilpan. thats just got the timing chain running in there anyway...don't know if that'd pass inspection or not...i'd vote for cars running 8.49 or 8.99 (if this was a democracy which it ain't) plus hanging one of those things off the header bolts on my car would be a trick ....not to mention they're just plain crappy looking...
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Post by "Wild Child" on Aug 19, 2010 20:47:02 GMT -9
The way I look at this is, how much does oil your motor hold mike? 8 quarts? I figure that if my moms 8.50 car has 8 quarts too, its just as much work to clean up her 8 quarts as yours. Granted, a quicker and faster car does have a higher chance of blowing up a motor, it does happen to everyone. Ask Rick, Gene, Jeff... etc.. I think that Mod, top and any class above that should have to run one if its going to be a rule.
If I had it my way, i'd just as soon not run one. Also, I've said this before but on my moms car, if we put a diaper on the motor, we won't pass tech because we don't have enough clearance below the car. So that becomes an issue.
I do have a good photo of John crossing the lane and from what it looks like, he came within' 4-5 feet of toni. At 200 mph, thats a dangerous mix.
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Post by SPRSTK on Aug 20, 2010 10:16:24 GMT -9
So, the purpose of the diaper is to contain a liquid. An engine oil pan is a container just as well as any catch can or puke tank, transmission pan, radiator, differential, etc. Are we going to put diapers under all of those containers? Everyone knows how much oil is their engine correct? Well, how much oil is in the transmission? How much water is in the engine and radiator? And speaking of the radiator, how many true racecars out there are using anti-freeze? In IHRA's General Regulations for all Classes it says: Antifreeze/glycol prohibited. Has a Tech person ever opened your radiator cap? I don’t want any of those fluids under our car and tires, but we can’t cover the whole car with a diaper. Where does it end?
Just how often does a 9.99 car oil the track by blowing a motor? From my observations the greatest offenders are Blown or Nitrous Oxide assisted cars anyway. They are pushing everything to their limits. We have all been doing this for a long time and have sat through bunches of Alcohol and Nitro oil down delays at the track. IHRA doesn't mandate that you have to run a diaper, unless you run TF, PM, PS, TD, TS or any Supercharged and Nitrous assisted vehicles quicker than 7.99 seconds. If we drug our racecar to Edmonton to race @ their IHRA National event, we could race in QR (8.90 index) or SR (9.90 index) without having to have a diaper on the engine.
And it’s not a safety issue. Our personal safety comes from roll bars, roll cages, seat belts, window nets, helmets, neck braces, fire suits, gloves, fire extinguishers and the saftey personnal at the track. I don’t feel unsafe in our car, and neither should you in yours. And if you do, you shouldn’t be in the car in the first place. I can see this rule for cars that run quicker than 8.49 or over 160 miles per hour (Top Dragster). Those cars are all going to be dragsters, altereds, or tube chassis door cars. Putting a diaper on those cars is a whole lot more feasible. The oil pan is wide open to the ground. We don’t have any stock chassis cars running in the mid to low 8 second range, but we do have stock chassis cars running in the 9 second range. Next time you are under the hood of a stock chassis racecar take a good look at the motor and try to picture how you are going to install a wrap around diaper between your headers, motor mounts, motor plates, cross members, K members, engine travel limiters, drag links, tie-rod ends, etc. And then try to figure how many changes are you going to have to make to make it fit? Let’s be realistic!
Then there is the heat issue. So you have all of this hot oil in the oil pan that is surrounded by an insulated blanket. When does that cool down? Overheated oil of any sort makes for more mechanical failures. This has already been proven! As a matter of fact, any overheated liquid is a hazard. That can be seen in all aspects of our lives. Overhearted oil, water and blood, especially blood!
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Post by dwl5x18 on Aug 20, 2010 10:53:51 GMT -9
I, 100 percent agree..... Where does it stop.... Just the same as 2 years ago mark said I need to shield my fuel cell..... I run a stock fuel tank.... ?.....
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Post by pumpgas540 on Aug 20, 2010 13:40:32 GMT -9
I have to agree that this may be going to far. Like Devin said, my motor blew and I put nothing on the track (Lucky me). Like has been already stated, the problems list goes on with having anything that runs 9.99 and quicker required to have a daiper and thrying to install on a stock chassis car may be next to impossible. Then you have the other side where the 13 second Mustang scattered his motor all over the track as well. Where does it all end.
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Post by ProStreetNova on Aug 20, 2010 15:40:50 GMT -9
One word ....... BUBBLEWRAP........ or maybe two words put together.
I didn't spread oil on the track either when my motor threw a rod out the pan. But as the oil was going out, it was getting steam cleaned from the cracked cylinder. I'm planning on buying one from DRE with motor mount cut-outs for stock motor mounts. Chances are I'll never need it if I sell my car.
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Post by candyman on Aug 20, 2010 16:53:10 GMT -9
Last year it was made known that the blanket rule was coming. This year it was made clear that they were advisory, recomended and mandatory for next season at 9.99. It could be argued that they are not needed at 9.99 and when you build your race track pick your number. Any fliud on board a race car will see the track. If a blanket kept one car from needing all the "SAFETY GEAR" listed it would be recognized at that point that it was a good investment. Track prep is key to a safe racing surface, what we can do in reason to keep it that way during a event makes good sense to me. Its not just for he safety of the car installed on, its for everyone that goes down the track. Blankets do more than protect against major failure, they also contain a lot of "slow leakers'. Hot oil / cold water makes power. Anyone got real numbers for oil temp on a water cooled bracket car with / without blanket? If your junk is going to burn down with a blanket, look for other issues. Compared to all the stuff required to stay tech current, the blanket requirement is no real big deal. They do not need to be SFI approved, and have no expiration date. One time expense unlike alot of other "consumable safety gear" stuff with SFI expirations. You do have other options, a pan as a containment is another route. Lack of compliance with established rules like "No Antifreeze allowed" and less than strict compliance with other rules could be considered as a degradation of the norm. If we pick and choose what rules we will and will not follow we only justify the need for the dreaded tech dudes even further. For you outlaws.......take your perfectly good five point harness that has expired and never restrained you in a wreck, use it to strap on some pampers to your pile and race! It's going to be a long winter:)
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Post by scott9x33 on Aug 20, 2010 18:53:48 GMT -9
i agree with mike ....again
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ax87
Grabbing Gears
Posts: 167
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Post by ax87 on Aug 21, 2010 5:34:54 GMT -9
I'll put my two cents in: I hate this proposed rule too and here is why: I have spent too much money on my "hobby". Yeah, I could make a diaper work on my tube chassis, high 8 second car but I don't want to. The custom one that I want would fit well, look decent and be fairly easy to work around...... of course it is expensive. The cheaper unit that I bought and started to install, looks like crap. Not only does it look like shit but with all of it's excess material and straps dangling all over the place it looks like a safety hazard! I hate it and it's not going on my car. (And this was a "cheap" SFI $250.+ version) Cheap my ass!
Racing is getting too expensive. We should NOT be looking for ways to make it cost even more. We keep on doing this, and we'll lose in the long run...trust me. Anybody see Ron Bowermans stuff on craigs-list? There goes another one. Here we are in a tough economy and we're trying to make racing even more expensive? Not a good idea.
If IHRA doesn't mandate it, than neither should we. That is the bottom line.
I understand the tracks dilemma. But there must be a better way. I would happily volunteer my time to run the sweeper, the 4 wheeler or what ever Earl wants me to do on race days to help out. I know his pay-roll on race days must eat at him during an oil-down. What if we had a revolving schedule of volunteers that help out more on race days? Crazy idea I'm sure, but it's something to think about.
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Post by SPRSTK on Aug 21, 2010 6:44:25 GMT -9
I would happily volunteer my time to run the sweeper, the 4 wheeler or what ever Earl wants me to do on race days to help out. I know his pay-roll on race days must eat at him during an oil-down. What if we had a revolving schedule of volunteers that help out more on race days? Crazy idea I'm sure, but it's something to think about. Great idea Clint! Put me on the list.
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Post by White Lightning on Aug 21, 2010 7:05:33 GMT -9
So, the purpose of the diaper is to contain a liquid. An engine oil pan is a container just as well as any catch can or puke tank, transmission pan, radiator, differential, etc. Are we going to put diapers under all of those containers? Everyone knows how much oil is their engine correct? Well, how much oil is in the transmission? How much water is in the engine and radiator? And speaking of the radiator, how many true racecars out there are using anti-freeze? In IHRA's General Regulations for all Classes it says: Antifreeze/glycol prohibited. Has a Tech person ever opened your radiator cap? I don’t want any of those fluids under our car and tires, but we can’t cover the whole car with a diaper. Where does it end? Just how often does a 9.99 car oil the track by blowing a motor? From my observations the greatest offenders are Blown or Nitrous Oxide assisted cars anyway. They are pushing everything to their limits. We have all been doing this for a long time and have sat through bunches of Alcohol and Nitro oil down delays at the track. IHRA doesn't mandate that you have to run a diaper, unless you run TF, PM, PS, TD, TS or any Supercharged and Nitrous assisted vehicles quicker than 7.99 seconds. If we drug our racecar to Edmonton to race @ their IHRA National event, we could race in QR (8.90 index) or SR (9.90 index) without having to have a diaper on the engine. And it’s not a safety issue. Our personal safety comes from roll bars, roll cages, seat belts, window nets, helmets, neck braces, fire suits, gloves, fire extinguishers and the saftey personnal at the track. I don’t feel unsafe in our car, and neither should you in yours. And if you do, you shouldn’t be in the car in the first place. I can see this rule for cars that run quicker than 8.49 or over 160 miles per hour (Top Dragster). Those cars are all going to be dragsters, altereds, or tube chassis door cars. Putting a diaper on those cars is a whole lot more feasible. The oil pan is wide open to the ground. We don’t have any stock chassis cars running in the mid to low 8 second range, but we do have stock chassis cars running in the 9 second range. Next time you are under the hood of a stock chassis racecar take a good look at the motor and try to picture how you are going to install a wrap around diaper between your headers, motor mounts, motor plates, cross members, K members, engine travel limiters, drag links, tie-rod ends, etc. And then try to figure how many changes are you going to have to make to make it fit? Let’s be realistic! Then there is the heat issue. So you have all of this hot oil in the oil pan that is surrounded by an insulated blanket. When does that cool down? Overheated oil of any sort makes for more mechanical failures. This has already been proven! As a matter of fact, any overheated liquid is a hazard. That can be seen in all aspects of our lives. Overhearted oil, water and blood, especially blood! X2 on this...... Rob
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