Front End Adjustments

[ax87]

What do you guys make of these measurements? I realize that without being at ride height, and without the car being completely put back together its not as accurate as it can be. However, the measurements tell me that everything is off.

I'll have it professionally aligned once its all back together, but I am curious what all of this means, and if I am doing it right.

I have been told that Camber should be 0-1 degrees
Caster should be 8-10 degrees

Maybe I am missing something, but it looks to me like my left tire has about .3* (89.7* on the tool) of negative camber, while my right is about .7* (89.3*) of positive camber.

Caster: Do the pics show .9 (81.0) caster for the left and 9.2* (80.8) for the right?

Also, take a look at the photos showing the lower control arm to strut "pocket" bolt hole what ever you want to call it. Looks to me like they're on the wrong sides of the car. Shouldn't the angle of the arm where the strut bolts to it be about the same angle? Looks to me like the parts got mixed up and they're mounted on the wrong sides.

Right Camber: Does this mean I have .7* pf positive camber?


Left Camber; (I'm holding the camera crooked, not measuring crooked) and this one would be .3* of negative camber.


right Caster:


Left Caster:


Lower Control Arm to Strut mount:

["Wild Child"]

just pissing into the wind here but it looks like that a arm should be flipped. I believe thats how it is on my truck.

[ax87]

Feb 5, 2011 18:11:40 GMT -9 "Wild Child" said:

just pissing into the wind here but it looks like that a arm should be flipped. I believe thats how it is on my truck.

I agree Devin, that's what I was trying to explain. If they were swapped to the opposite sides that they're on now, they would be upside down too from where they are now, and it looks like the angle would be a lot better. I wonder how much, (if any) this would change the way the car drives.

Right now, if I were to draw a line through the strut, the line would intersect with the tire to pavement contact patch or just barely ahead of it. Which if I understand correctly is basically 0 caster. (or close to it) I think the further this line is ahead of the contact patch equates to more caster. The more caster you have the "heavier" the steering will be. Too much caster and its hard to steer at low speeds. I read that a car with 0 caster would have a very light touch and feel extremely unstable at high speeds. Very much like the way my car feels. I feel this is all just part of the solution, buts its probably a big part.

[candyman]

Far from any reference to real experince, but..............That A Arm joint looks to be at the limit in one direction of range of travel? Engine in car? It looks like it would move toward center of range of movement with weight on strut. I would simulate strut extension / compression and determine if range of motion is resticted by range of motion capacity of that joint. It would make sense to me that at rest, race weight / race ready that range of motion of that joint should be near center to allow extension and compression of the strut?

Here's me thinking I would flip them arms like a bisquick pancake and see how it looks / measures. Then I would have Gene come check it out When the silver car was at his shop, was very evident that my camber was WAY WRONG, and caster was ball park. We made changes that could be recognized by just eye ball / no measurement required to "see " the difference. It measures out much better now...................funny thing is as bad as it was that car drove with one hand / no drama. I did have plenty of caster, was more of a camber issue with mine. I think your on to something with your observation! Here's a good link for basic reference....... www.nescaracing.com/alignment.html

["Wild Child"]

Feb 5, 2011 19:00:08 GMT -9 scott9x33 said:

i think all ford shit is done backwards , thats why your distributer is in the front, so thats probably right.....

Yeah because ford totally makes strange struts, dumbass, or in clints case, santuff struts?
So if clints are backwards, that must be a 40 ford right? not a willy's?
Btw, its distributor, maybe you should go back to highschool and get an ejamacation and maybe with that nova you could be that cool kid you wish you were back in the 80's, or was it 70's?

I agree with candyman, rip those struts off, flip the a arms and see how it looks. The geometry makes it look like how they are now is bass akwards

[scott9x33]

ouch devin , you got me , i will just make that post disappear ....like you made inucted into inducted

[ax87]

Feb 5, 2011 21:15:35 GMT -9 candyman said:

Far from any reference to real experince, but..............That A Arm joint looks to be at the limit in one direction of range of travel? Engine in car? It looks like it would move toward center of range of movement with weight on strut. I would simulate strut extension / compression and determine if range of motion is resticted by range of motion capacity of that joint. It would make sense to me that at rest, race weight / race ready that range of motion of that joint should be near center to allow extension and compression of the strut?

Here's me thinking I would flip them arms like a bisquick pancake and see how it looks / measures. Then I would have Gene come check it out When the silver car was at his shop, was very evident that my camber was WAY WRONG, and caster was ball park. We made changes that could be recognized by just eye ball / no measurement required to "see " the difference. It measures out much better now...................funny thing is as bad as it was that car drove with one hand / no drama. I did have plenty of caster, was more of a camber issue with mine. I think your on to something with your observation! Here's a good link for basic reference....... www.nescaracing.com/alignment.html

Thanks, I'll check out the link. I am going to flip the arms and while I'm at it I can remove the springs and measure bump steer and play with suspension travel.
I know that my car has 1.5" of front shock sag in race form. So while the springs are removed, I'll be able to set the suspension at ride height, and check/measure the bump steer and verify the caster/camber,tow-in etc..... HOWEVER... Am I measuring the caster & reading the level correctly? I don't know. ???What about the invisible line through the strut, meeting the tire contact patch? I know that this should be ahead of the tire to create the caster. My line hits the contact patch. Again, not sure if I am doing this right. When I sit in front of the car and stare at it for hours on end trying to figure this crap out, ;DIt looks to me like the adjustable part of the lower control arm is too long. The heims are screwed all the way in, yet I don't have enough caster. (I think) Maybe this will be better when I put the arms on the correct side's of the car.

I doubt other Race Car owners tow their car down to Midas, and have the front end aligned. Would you drop your Camaro off at Bubba's garage and throw him the keys? (more like a 30 minute speech on how to start it, back it up & use the shifter)I doubt it. This can't be that hard to do, and I need to learn how to do this in my garage.

Whew... My head hurts, screw this crap, I'm going to watch football today and pray my numbers come up so I can buy some race car stuff! I've got some pretty good squares this year, and I need race car stuff! ;D

[scott9x33]

clint , i have mine done at diversified , they will let you pull it on and off the rack , and you can even stand there while they do it , ask for smitty

[pumpgas540]

Clint, I have used MIDAS in Eagle River to align Kims car and they let me pull it on and off the frame rack. They understand the importance of your eqipment.

["Wild Child"]

hey scott, at diversified do then use a hanging rack or a platform rack. And whats the cost?

[scott9x33]

platform , think it was 60-70

["Wild Child"]

ah crap. idk if my truck would make it onto the rack. It sits so damn low. Thanks for the info Scott. Im going to diversified tomorrow to get moms new slicks mounted and ill ask.

[hirevn]

I also need a front end aligned on the Camaro. While doing the BB swap I also bolted up an entire new front suspension. I was also told diversified and to talk with Dave (front end guy Dave, not owner Dave). I guess hes a hotrod guy and will take care of your stuff, I haven't talked with him yet but this is a must do for me in the early spring.

[scott9x33]

Pretty sure were talking about the same guy...hey devin they will get it on there ... Just start at the beginning of the parking lot and punch it .....

[nasty-one]

I just looked at your pictures, the control arms need to be changed left to right. They are definitely on the wrong sides.