To Box or No Box, and Auto-Shifters?

[AKNOVA]

ax87

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I am starting a controversial subject, but I'm curious just how racers really feel about the infamous delay box. I read somewhere that: "A Delay Box makes bad Drag Racers good, and good Drag Racers great" If you do run a box, whats your preference in brands? Why? I've always been a bottom bulb racer myself, but I am not against the box like some of my buddies, and I wouldn't mind giving it a shot. With the box will probably come an automatic shifter, either Air or Electric. Whats the difference here other than the obvious? What do you like, air or 12vdc? I've seen a couple electric units on the market with funky looking linkage that look clunky, and ugly.
Lets hear all the comments about driving their car and so forth, which is fine. I do not agree with these type of statements, I feel your still "driving" the car, your just leaving off the top bulb instead of the bottom. AND since drag racing is a contest of time, you must hit your shift points EXACTLY every time, why not use an automatic shifter device? Do you base your shifter on time, or RPM?

[AKNOVA]

ProStreetNova



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Well I'll give ya my opinion. I don't think a Delay Box makes a Good Driver Great. It may make him think he is, just cause he can program the box better then others. All it does is makes him a Great Programmer and someone thats along for the computer controlled launch. Now add in a Electric/air Shifter and you have a total controlled ride. Might as well use a remote control to run the car, just sit in the stands and drive.

I'm not against a electric or air shifter if you leave without a Box, at least your reaction time is dependent on you.

Just my 2 cents

[AKNOVA]

ax87



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This is kind of what I felt too. I've never tried a box so I dont know what its like. But it could be argued that your ignition box is a computer, fuel injected cars run computer's, computer's are here to stay and they are working their way into our race cars whether we like them or not. I agree that using a box is kind of a form of "cheating" but only when compared to the way they did it in the 60's. Nowadays if all of your competitors are using them, then you better jump on board or your going to get beat. Granted every once in a while you will get lucky and beat a box car with a no-box car, but on the average your going to lose. I do not like the idea of using a computer to launch for me and shift for me either. Hell, I love to drive, I don't want anything doing it for me. But I like winning just a little bit more than driving. And if your going to build a bracket car for winning rounds then you better put one in. We have separate classes up here for the designations, but is that what they do in the lower 48? Or is everybody remote controlling their cars from the grandstands?

[AKNOVA]

AkRacer



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Dam this could be a real can of worms your opening up.
I could go on and on but let's do it this way.
My Vote:
Delay Boxes- Their own class
Cross-over Boxes- Their own class
these two classes should never-ever compete with no box cars in any event. Makes it all unfair.
Air/Elec. shifter- OK
Rpm/Time shifter- OK, must be manual set.
The whole thing comes down to Reaction Time at the start. Some drivers need help and some drivers don't.

[AKNOVA]

Candyman



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Electric or air shift? Electric is a much cleaner install, check out the Outlaw brand shifter, very clean and simple. Just a solinoid that pushes the shift lever forward to change gear at a given RPM or based on time. I can tell you that my litte experience reflects value in "Auto shift". I race the Chevelle in drive, it shifts the same EVERY time. I thought that the electric shift on the glide was a no brainer too...........until the solinoid fired and the car did not shift. I was counting on it to do it's job, had done so every pass previous. That resulted in bouncing off the rev chip hard, bent push rods, puked a lifter, ect. I still do not trust it, may never fail me again. I now shift manually at a point just prior to the set RPM level for the shift. If I am late it will shift it's self, if it fails to work I am planning on shifting anyways! As far as box goes, never done that but.............The class is way limited in car count, Chicks dig Mod ET guys, and the class is way limited. I have a Biondo Mega 200 box if you want to give one a try prior to purchasing one..............One definite advantage at our track for sure is Money Bracket day. Those that run that race without the box are either feeeling very lucky, are bucks up, or stupid. I have been told that quick / light cars will have a hard time cutting a good light / go red leving off the bottom bulb. Why is that? I will find out come spring, going to actually try and race the car and care about reaction time. That's right Jay Goodie! It's more than a car show, its a RACE TRACK!!!!!!

[AKNOVA]

Devin Welsh


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To be honest, I dont like either of them. I remember Kristina Coats, "Bing's Daughter" was running bings vega and was in the finals and had electrical problems and didn't have enough voltage to activate the shifter and it hit the rev limiter and she had to shift it by herself and she lost. My mom also had her electric auto-shift crap out and it hit the rev limiter and made her lose the race.
Personally, I wanna know that I am controling everything in the car. If your too old to shift it yourself, or in my moms case, too scared, Step down and let the young guns take over
As for the delay box, I dont like it, I believe its an amazing system, but it should never be in a class where there are no-box cars.
It does give the driver an un-fair advantage because its been proven that a body reacts better off of its first sight, but with having time to see the bulbs come down, you build up anxiety and become nervous, or, you become really d**n good at cutting a light.
One last thing I have a question on, If you see the first light, and you let off the button, and you look down and you have 0 oil pressure, and you let out of the throttle, will the car still try to jump at a low low rpm?

[AKNOVA]

White Lightning


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Go CANDYMAN Go! lol Well I'll ring in my 2 cents worth here: Delay box.....you STILL have to activate it off the bulb....yourself....punch the button on the first bulb or let go on the last...it's still your own reaction. Some might react better to the first thing they see, others have a better sense of rythym (being a musician (also) I fall into the latter group). I've been racing for years, both turn left and Drag, and I grew up cutting a last yellow, so it's a honed habit with me.
On a different note; I'm getting ready to slide into a whole different class of a car: a RED. For the first season I'll be running MOD/ET just trying to get oriented and sorting the combo out with a relatively mild engine program (and yes, this won't be until next season....so all you fearful nail biters can relax.....you've got one more season before you have to fear the Lightning bolt! lol). But, as soon as I get my dream bullet built I'll have to be stepping up to T/D...and from what I hear, I'll have to succome to the dreaded box.
Shifters: Back in the day I could row a 4 speed with the best of 'em, that's all we had if you wanted any kind of performance. Now, with the improvements in automatic trannys, if ya want no missed shifts, you run one, and being as we're running a dial and trying to hit it, we have to be consistant and personaly I like an electricaly operated one.... and running a rail, as I will be, once I've got a handful of butterfly and a real quick steering ratio on the other end of the shaft, I'm not going to want to let go and try and hit a litty bitty 1" wide shifter hidden out of the way somewhere and have to one hand 220"s of screamin' Ford powered hand grenade!...........Do I speak the truth John?? lolol (AK Racer)

[AKNOVA]

AkRacer

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That's what i was saying. You can't run a box car against a no-box car in Money Bracket or any other bracket, it's not fair. My Opinion!
And there again, If your elec. shifter fails that's what a driver is there for, to make the shift.
I watch my shift light, If that shifter don't move before i do i have it covered. I don't want a 2cent diode costing me a race, a win or a motor.
You can't trust electronics. a short, low battery, a diode, ETC. To many things could go wrong.
Mod/ET is about as close as we come to Nostalgia Racing. It's the Man/woman and his/her machine. Not the rider and their mighty computer.
My opinion on computers in drag cars.
No! Unless they are in their own class and only race other like equpied cars. This should be a Handicapped class.

[AKNOVA]

White Lightning


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I agree John. Seperate classes...tain't fair.

[AKNOVA]

AkRacer

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Your right W/L it's fun trying to shift in there. But if i was running GoodGuys Nostalgia rules in my FED. I can't have an elec. shifter. Manual shift only.
As for your RED, you'll be over in lane 6 for awhile test and tuning. And remember you have to license in that thing and only guys in your class or above can sign for it. Boy is that going to cost abunch. and yes i hold a dragster license. I had to take a test to run sportsman, they had to see how long i could stay awake. I also have a book to read in the truck on those LONG 10 second runs.

[AKNOVA]

Candyman


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Conner's Camaro was a 8.8x car, no box and runs Mod ET with no issues cutting competitive lights? Why is the perception that quicker cars have issue with a bottom bulb leave? Leave on first hint of last yellow, .5 to green = devils eyeball / red with quick reacting car? Here's me thinking an 'Adjustable" trans brake release button cures that problem........ or is that an Ill Eagle Mod ET rule breaker? While were at it.............Transbrake racers have the advantage over footbreak racers? To many rules, excuses for me. Show up, shut up and race Box Boy! At work and stirring the pot.......................................Warming up for some good 3 beer trash talking in the pits after the race!

[AKNOVA]

Semi Serious Racing


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Personally I like a clear difference between the classes. When I go to the line against another like equiped car I'd like to think I stand as good of a chance to win as the guy/girl in the other lane. I run a transbrake and two-step. Some run foot brake and no MSD. But the leave is all on the driver.
When I was running money bracket and ended up running against Nathan in the semi-finals it took all the fun out of it for me. The race was close but that just means I left well and came close to running my number. The computer in the other lane on the other hand ran exactly as predicted and bumped me out. I really still don't feel Nathan beat me, I feel his computer did. This is where Craigs comment about being stupid comes in. Anyway it was another chance to race and test my abilities.
Bottom line is I like both classes and the people that compete in them. I don't like running against them though. I like leaving off the bottom bulb and trying to figure out how many thousandths of a second I have to look at it before I let go of the button. I also like shifting off the light. Even though the box cars are faster I don't think I would enjoy "driving" one that much.

[AKNOVA]

AkRacer


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I agree with JJ.

[AKNOVA]

Devin Welsh


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Uhmm...craig....
Have you ever talked to mike conner after a run or when hes drunk?
He just cuts d**n good lights. Just using a plain old b&m ratchet shifter with the transbrake on the side of the t handle.
and honestly, I cut 03 05 07 lights in the ranger with a foot break, if I can do it, anyone can. No excuses.
Now a delay box, like with the cross over, and a throttle stop, and an electric shifter, is a set up that with the right car will run as dialed every time, Like Nathan's car.
and I completely agree with JJ.
If you cant be old school, drop out.
Good comparison here, JJ throws a baseball. 30-40 mph,
Jeff uses steroids, throws at 80 mph. Steroids being the electronics.
Granted they wouldn't be in the same league, but still, Why not just run without it, Is they really that doubtful about their own abilities?

[AKNOVA]

White Lightning



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on Feb 21st, 2010, 4:10pm, AkRacer wrote:Your right W/L it's fun trying to shift in there. But if i was running GoodGuys Nostalgia rules in my FED. I can't have an elec. shifter. Manual shift only.
As for your RED, you'll be over in lane 6 for awhile test and tuning. And remember you have to license in that thing and only guys in your class or above can sign for it. Boy is that going to cost abunch. and yes i hold a dragster license. I had to take a test to run sportsman, they had to see how long i could stay awake. I also have a book to read in the truck on those LONG 10 second runs.



Well, John....if you stop and think that you're actually covering a half mile every time you make a pass, you're actually turning a 5 second quarter mile......doesn't that require a different license??